Comments on: Land for Biofuel http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/ Ed Ring's EcoWorld Posts Sun, 5 Jul 2009 03:40:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Biodiesel http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-91122 Biodiesel Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:49:49 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-91122 Very cool, I build <a href="http://www.biofuelprocessor.com" rel="nofollow">biodiesel processors</a> which turn waste vegetable oil into biodiesel. It is really amazing how simple the process is, as well as saving the customer $2-3 per gallon at the pumps. Algae biodiesel looks even more promising. As the other poster said, we just need to keep moving in the right direction. Very cool, I build biodiesel processors which turn waste vegetable oil into biodiesel. It is really amazing how simple the process is, as well as saving the customer $2-3 per gallon at the pumps. Algae biodiesel looks even more promising. As the other poster said, we just need to keep moving in the right direction.

]]> By: shailesh http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-90570 shailesh Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:15:00 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-90570 pls send pls send

]]> By: Ed Ring http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-77464 Ed Ring Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:17:16 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-77464 Jonas - first of all, thank you. Until I read your comment I had been confusing exajoules with petajoules. In any case, since 1.0 exajoules is roughly equivalent to .95 quadrillion BTUs, and since humanity currently requires about 500 "quad" BTUs per year (all energy sources, not just petroleum), then these 1,400 exajoules you reference indeed would constitute 3x total energy currently consumed worldwide, and probably 3x total petroleum currently consumed worldwide. But where did you get your figures? To get to 1,400 exajoules, you would need 50,000 BBL per square mile, with 5 million square miles committed to biofuel crops. I agree the math works, but I'd like to see more evidence regarding yields of this magnitude. Jonas - first of all, thank you. Until I read your comment I had been confusing exajoules with petajoules. In any case, since 1.0 exajoules is roughly equivalent to .95 quadrillion BTUs, and since humanity currently requires about 500 “quad” BTUs per year (all energy sources, not just petroleum), then these 1,400 exajoules you reference indeed would constitute 3x total energy currently consumed worldwide, and probably 3x total petroleum currently consumed worldwide.

But where did you get your figures? To get to 1,400 exajoules, you would need 50,000 BBL per square mile, with 5 million square miles committed to biofuel crops. I agree the math works, but I’d like to see more evidence regarding yields of this magnitude.

]]> By: Jonas http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-73358 Jonas Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:17:03 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-73358 EROI for sugarcane ethanol is between 8 and 10 to 1. That for cassava ethanol around 5 to 1. That for cellulosic biofuels is about 20 to 1. That for synthetic biofuels around 10 to 1. That for biogas based on sugarcane or sorghum is between 12 and 15 to 1. Most advanced biofuels now have an EROI superior to most newly pumped up oil (e.g. in deep-sea fields, highly energy intensive). With advances in microbiology, synthetic biology, biotechnology and bioconversion, the EROI will go up much further. According to the IEA's Bioenergy Task 40, the planet can sustain around 1400 Exajoules of bioenergy for exports (international trade) by 2050 under a high input, high tech scenario, WITHOUT deforestation, and WITH ensuring the food, fiber, fodder, and forest product needs of growing populations. 1400 EJ is around 7 times as much than all the oil consumed by the entire world. In short, there is no debate about carrying capacity or about potential. The planet can produce more sustainable bioenergy than mankind will ever need. EROI for sugarcane ethanol is between 8 and 10 to 1. That for cassava ethanol around 5 to 1. That for cellulosic biofuels is about 20 to 1. That for synthetic biofuels around 10 to 1. That for biogas based on sugarcane or sorghum is between 12 and 15 to 1.

Most advanced biofuels now have an EROI superior to most newly pumped up oil (e.g. in deep-sea fields, highly energy intensive).

With advances in microbiology, synthetic biology, biotechnology and bioconversion, the EROI will go up much further.

According to the IEA’s Bioenergy Task 40, the planet can sustain around 1400 Exajoules of bioenergy for exports (international trade) by 2050 under a high input, high tech scenario, WITHOUT deforestation, and WITH ensuring the food, fiber, fodder, and forest product needs of growing populations.

1400 EJ is around 7 times as much than all the oil consumed by the entire world.

In short, there is no debate about carrying capacity or about potential. The planet can produce more sustainable bioenergy than mankind will ever need.

]]> By: More boring stuff from the Net :|»Boringest :| - Moolah!!! http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-72679 More boring stuff from the Net :|»Boringest :| - Moolah!!! Sun, 30 Dec 2007 02:37:56 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-72679 [...] EcoWorld - The Global Environmental Community - Nature and Technology in Harmony In a city of 100,000 people, at a population density of 5,000 people per square mile (what used to be a high density suburb, but what the smart growth people now call eggregious sprawl - read “California Land Use Choices,” or “Critique of New Urbani (tags: biofuel) [...] [...] EcoWorld - The Global Environmental Community - Nature and Technology in Harmony In a city of 100,000 people, at a population density of 5,000 people per square mile (what used to be a high density suburb, but what the smart growth people now call eggregious sprawl - read “California Land Use Choices,” or “Critique of New Urbani (tags: biofuel) [...]

]]> By: Cherenkov http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-72622 Cherenkov Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:44:57 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-72622 Eroei is negative for all biofuels. You will not have a biofuel powered autotopia. Not going to happen. Why don't the pseudo-greens quit being apologists and auto/tech worshippers and advocate the complete cessation of automobile use? Technology is not the the solution. It is the problem. For information about eroei for biofuel, go to:<a href="http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/faculty/faculty_pubs.php?name=Patzek" rel="nofollow">http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/faculty/faculty_pubs.php?name=Patzek</a> Because humans are incapable of holistic thinking except in the briefest of spontaneous moments or after years of training, I seriously doubt that we will start backing down the technological cul-de-sac we have so blindly driven into. For a really eye-opening moment go to: <a href="http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_in_depth" rel="nofollow">http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_in_depth</a> After watching the films, you may have a better understanding of why the drive to tech our way out of our situation is fraught with perils. Eroei is negative for all biofuels. You will not have a biofuel powered autotopia. Not going to happen. Why don’t the pseudo-greens quit being apologists and auto/tech worshippers and advocate the complete cessation of automobile use?

Technology is not the the solution. It is the problem.

For information about eroei for biofuel, go to:http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/faculty/faculty_pubs.php?name=Patzek

Because humans are incapable of holistic thinking except in the briefest of spontaneous moments or after years of training, I seriously doubt that we will start backing down the technological cul-de-sac we have so blindly driven into.

For a really eye-opening moment go to:
http://globalpublicmedia.com/dr_albert_bartlett_in_depth

After watching the films, you may have a better understanding of why the drive to tech our way out of our situation is fraught with perils.

]]> By: Randall Cade http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-72594 Randall Cade Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:44:08 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-72594 You need to look into the "Energy Return on Investment" (EROI) for biofuels - that is the ratio of total energy available for use divided by the total energy input. A ratio of less than 1.0 means the process consumes more energy than it provides. Corn ethanol has a EROI of 0.8 to 1.2, making it a non-viable business without government subsidies. The only thing that keeps it going is government subsidies and cheap petroleum based fuel. By contrast the EROI for oil, gas, and coal extraction is in the range of 20 to 100. EROI is well documented. For more info, see <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com" rel="nofollow">theoildrum.com</a> or <a href="http://www.energybulletin.net" rel="nofollow">energybulletin.net</a> You need to look into the “Energy Return on Investment” (EROI) for biofuels - that is the ratio of total energy available for use divided by the total energy input. A ratio of less than 1.0 means the process consumes more energy than it provides. Corn ethanol has a EROI of 0.8 to 1.2, making it a non-viable business without government subsidies. The only thing that keeps it going is government subsidies and cheap petroleum based fuel. By contrast the EROI for oil, gas, and coal extraction is in the range of 20 to 100.

EROI is well documented. For more info, see theoildrum.com or energybulletin.net

]]> By: Charlie Peters http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/comment-page-1/#comment-72572 Charlie Peters Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:42:59 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2007/12/28/land-for-biofuel/#comment-72572 Does corn fuel ethanol policy increase oil profit and increase oil use? * Some folks think so * Clean Air Performance Professionals Does corn fuel ethanol policy increase oil profit and increase oil use?

* Some folks think so

* Clean Air Performance Professionals

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