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	<title>Comments on: Dams &amp; Greenhouse Gas</title>
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	<link>http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/</link>
	<description>Ed Ring's EcoWorld Posts</description>
	<pubDate>Sun,  5 Jul 2009 02:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ed Ring</title>
		<link>http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-3647</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Ring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 00:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/#comment-3647</guid>
		<description>It is appropriate to rely on a "footnote" to point out discrepancies if the footnote provides the primary quantitative data. Here is the footnote in its entirety:

"(2) St. Louis et al. (2000) estimate that reservoirs worldwide release 70 million tons CH4 and 1,000 million tons CO2 annually (20% of estimated CH4 emissions from all other human activities, and 4% CO2 from other known anthropogenic sources). These estimates are based on a calculation of 1.5 million km² global reservoir area (0.9m km² temperate; 0.6m km² tropical). This calculation is likely an overestimate. A more recent analysis estimates that reservoirs (&gt;0.01km²) cover a global area of 260,000 km² (Downing et al. (2006))."

We stand by our contention that it is misleading to overstate the contribution of any greenhouse gas to the atmosphere by a factor of 5.8x - and require the reader to do the math in the footnotes to realize this.

Taking into account this correction, it isn't 20% of all anthropogenic methane that comes from reservoirs, it is 3.4%, a much less alarming figure.

Our goal is not to mock environmental groups. We like environmental groups - we support environmental groups - we are environmentalists, too. We agree that mega-dams are not always a good idea, and that there are often worthy alternatives. What we object to is trying to tie anything we don't like to global warming and greenhouse gas.  We also object to the notion that all large water projects are bad, or that the entire hydro-power industry is evil.  For a large water project we would love to see, read "&lt;a title="Arctic to Aral" href="/home/articles2.cfm?tid=378" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;Arctic to Aral - Siberian Waters Save the Aral Sea&lt;/a&gt;."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is appropriate to rely on a &#8220;footnote&#8221; to point out discrepancies if the footnote provides the primary quantitative data. Here is the footnote in its entirety:</p>
<p>&#8220;(2) St. Louis et al. (2000) estimate that reservoirs worldwide release 70 million tons CH4 and 1,000 million tons CO2 annually (20% of estimated CH4 emissions from all other human activities, and 4% CO2 from other known anthropogenic sources). These estimates are based on a calculation of 1.5 million km² global reservoir area (0.9m km² temperate; 0.6m km² tropical). This calculation is likely an overestimate. A more recent analysis estimates that reservoirs (&gt;0.01km²) cover a global area of 260,000 km² (Downing et al. (2006)).&#8221;</p>
<p>We stand by our contention that it is misleading to overstate the contribution of any greenhouse gas to the atmosphere by a factor of 5.8x - and require the reader to do the math in the footnotes to realize this.</p>
<p>Taking into account this correction, it isn&#8217;t 20% of all anthropogenic methane that comes from reservoirs, it is 3.4%, a much less alarming figure.</p>
<p>Our goal is not to mock environmental groups. We like environmental groups - we support environmental groups - we are environmentalists, too. We agree that mega-dams are not always a good idea, and that there are often worthy alternatives. What we object to is trying to tie anything we don&#8217;t like to global warming and greenhouse gas.  We also object to the notion that all large water projects are bad, or that the entire hydro-power industry is evil.  For a large water project we would love to see, read &#8220;<a title="Arctic to Aral" href="/home/articles2.cfm?tid=378" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Arctic to Aral - Siberian Waters Save the Aral Sea</a>.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Kingston</title>
		<link>http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-3643</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Kingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/#comment-3643</guid>
		<description>It is unfortunate that both the article and the first posting about the “Fizzy Science” report by International Rivers Network misrepresent the information on hydropower dam emissions with reference to methane emissions, while continuing the global warming is not such a bad thing after all idea.

As the author builds a “case” against CO2 emissions, the author fails to note a significant portion of the report is based on methane emissions, which is a far more potent greenhouse gas emitter than CO2. The reading of the report is selective. The entire critique is based on an alleged discrepancy in a footnote. Nowhere does the author address the central contention of the report, that reservoirs in tropical areas can be potent greenhouse gas emissions, it would be helpful if this were at least noted. 

The author also accuses IRN of being reflexively anti-dam, this is unfair as it is inaccurate. IRN simply opposes mega projects that invariably make overblown promises about electricity production and irrigation benefits. They fail to mention all the people who are flooded out of their homelands. The power produced in developing nations usually benefits urban elites or is shipped out of the country where the dam is built. IRN does not oppose small recharge dams and other projects of local benefit and as the author notes, IRN is involved in proposing alternatives. 

As to the posting it suffices to say accusations of lying are to say the least unhelpful in any discussion. At this point the consensus in the field is not whether dams create greenhouse gases, but just how high the level of their emissions are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unfortunate that both the article and the first posting about the “Fizzy Science” report by International Rivers Network misrepresent the information on hydropower dam emissions with reference to methane emissions, while continuing the global warming is not such a bad thing after all idea.</p>
<p>As the author builds a “case” against CO2 emissions, the author fails to note a significant portion of the report is based on methane emissions, which is a far more potent greenhouse gas emitter than CO2. The reading of the report is selective. The entire critique is based on an alleged discrepancy in a footnote. Nowhere does the author address the central contention of the report, that reservoirs in tropical areas can be potent greenhouse gas emissions, it would be helpful if this were at least noted. </p>
<p>The author also accuses IRN of being reflexively anti-dam, this is unfair as it is inaccurate. IRN simply opposes mega projects that invariably make overblown promises about electricity production and irrigation benefits. They fail to mention all the people who are flooded out of their homelands. The power produced in developing nations usually benefits urban elites or is shipped out of the country where the dam is built. IRN does not oppose small recharge dams and other projects of local benefit and as the author notes, IRN is involved in proposing alternatives. </p>
<p>As to the posting it suffices to say accusations of lying are to say the least unhelpful in any discussion. At this point the consensus in the field is not whether dams create greenhouse gases, but just how high the level of their emissions are.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric McErlain</title>
		<link>http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric McErlain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/12/01/dams-greenhouse-gas/#comment-3313</guid>
		<description>At my organization's public Web site, we've compiled a number of studies on total lifecycle emissions from all sources of electricity generation.  In each case, nuclear and hydropower are at the low end of the scale:

http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=2&amp;catid=260

Some folks simply believe that if you repeat the same lie often enough people will start to believe it.  I guess that's the case here too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At my organization&#8217;s public Web site, we&#8217;ve compiled a number of studies on total lifecycle emissions from all sources of electricity generation.  In each case, nuclear and hydropower are at the low end of the scale:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=2&amp;catid=260" rel="nofollow">http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=2&amp;catid=260</a></p>
<p>Some folks simply believe that if you repeat the same lie often enough people will start to believe it.  I guess that&#8217;s the case here too.</p>
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