Comments on: ZENN Cars & EEStor’s Ultracapacitor http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/ Ed Ring's EcoWorld Posts Sun, 5 Jul 2009 02:24:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Jack Willard http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-90825 Jack Willard Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:24:28 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-90825 Are we looking for a true ultracapacitor or a battery? I have stumbled across a true cap which is inexpensive to make, (No exotic materials, just high grade activated carbon). charges and discharges in 3 seconds and yeilds a minimum of 212 F/g at a fraction of the cost of either EEStor or Maxwell. If this device were placed in parallel with a LI Battery it would decrease its size and cost. Look on the following site for the Clean Tech presentation by Dr. Carl Nesbitt. http://www.ct-si.org/Cleantech2008/symposia/Energy_Transmission_Storage.html Are we looking for a true ultracapacitor or a battery? I have stumbled across a true cap which is inexpensive to make, (No exotic materials, just high grade activated carbon). charges and discharges in 3 seconds and yeilds a minimum of 212 F/g at a fraction of the cost of either EEStor or Maxwell. If this device were placed in parallel with a LI Battery it would decrease its size and cost. Look on the following site for the Clean Tech presentation by Dr. Carl Nesbitt.

http://www.ct-si.org/Cleantech2008/symposia/Energy_Transmission_Storage.html

]]> By: Carl http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-90658 Carl Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:22:04 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-90658 Pollution: Moving from individual engines to central electricity generating plants would mean a net decrease in overall pollution. Even getting pollution out of our crowded cities would be a gain for public health. United States, Japan and Russia currently lead the global ultracapacitor industry, with makers such as Maxwell Technologies Inc. and NEC Corp. occupying the majority of world market. To keep up with their foreign counterparts, mainland China makers are upgrading their production technologies and improving their product quality and R&D. Dick Weir, founder and CEO of EEStor, told me a few weeks ago that there would be an announcement soon on permittivity of its barium titanite powder, considered a major benchmark that would trigger future payments to EEStor from ZENN, and I can only assume Kleiner Perkins as well. http://eestor.biz/ Pollution: Moving from individual engines to central electricity generating plants would mean a net decrease in overall pollution. Even getting pollution out of our crowded cities would be a gain for public health.
United States, Japan and Russia currently lead the global ultracapacitor industry, with makers such as Maxwell Technologies Inc. and NEC Corp. occupying the majority of world market. To keep up with their foreign counterparts, mainland China makers are upgrading their production technologies and improving their product quality and R&D.
Dick Weir, founder and CEO of EEStor, told me a few weeks ago that there would be an announcement soon on permittivity of its barium titanite powder, considered a major benchmark that would trigger future payments to EEStor from ZENN, and I can only assume Kleiner Perkins as well.

http://eestor.biz/

]]> By: bob Deverell http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-90080 bob Deverell Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:10:20 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-90080 Some people have not realised why Zenn was chosen. EESTOR's strategy should now be clear. Look at EESTOR like Intel. I can buy INTEL motherboards and Intel cards, but that is not the core business. EESTOR is targetting to get their technology into every car in the planet, just like Intel has done with the u.chip. Genuine ZENN/EESTOR inside. This makes makes better business sense sense than going in with one large car manufacturer and seriously limiting your options. Remember Dr Weir is a computer man. Bob Some people have not realised why Zenn was chosen. EESTOR’s strategy should now be clear. Look at EESTOR like Intel. I can buy INTEL motherboards and Intel cards, but that is not the core business. EESTOR is targetting to get their technology into every car in the planet, just like Intel has done with the u.chip. Genuine ZENN/EESTOR inside. This makes makes better business sense sense than going in with one large car manufacturer and seriously limiting your options.
Remember Dr Weir is a computer man.
Bob

]]> By: brian http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-81080 brian Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:55:16 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-81080 A word to those who are scientists and to those who are not - not too many years ago when Sony put their cassette player Walkman onto the market, few folks could have invisioned an iPod. Be warned you critics of EEstor - you may one day be feasting upon a big plate of crow! Interesting to note that our ZENN is limited to 35mph by the Feds but not by technology - why not Federally limit all petrol engined cars to 70mph since that is the max speed limit ?? When we citizens truely begin to view our regulations we soon find that none make sense. Yeah, limit the ZENNs to 35mph for safety while allowing folks to purchase a motorcycle. Spock would spin in his grave. Our ZENN is the correct tool for the job and baby - we're saving tonnes of cash!!! I'm going for a drive..... A word to those who are scientists and to those who are not - not too many years ago when Sony put their cassette player Walkman onto the market, few folks could have invisioned an iPod. Be warned you critics of EEstor - you may one day be feasting upon a big plate of crow! Interesting to note that our ZENN is limited to 35mph by the Feds but not by technology - why not Federally limit all petrol engined cars to 70mph since that is the max speed limit ?? When we citizens truely begin to view our regulations we soon find that none make sense. Yeah, limit the ZENNs to 35mph for safety while allowing folks to purchase a motorcycle. Spock would spin in his grave. Our ZENN is the correct tool for the job and baby - we’re saving tonnes of cash!!! I’m going for a drive…..

]]> By: Robert http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-49626 Robert Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:01:11 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-49626 The only thing I don't like about low speed vehicle's is that if they are to be driven on roadways posted 35 mph or less then why NOT have programed to go 35 mph; doing 25 mph tends to irritate the driver behind you. The only thing I don’t like about low speed vehicle’s is that if they are to be driven on roadways posted 35 mph or less then why NOT have programed to go 35 mph; doing 25 mph tends to irritate the driver behind you.

]]> By: John http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-28691 John Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:39:55 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-28691 This was responded to in more detail on Tylers site, but basically, the Georgia Tech work was not in the same field as EEStor. True, they both used Barium Titanate, and the GT people made a significant step ahead in the field of BT loaded epoxy for incorporation in PC boards. An earlier paper by Penn State had predicted the maximum K of about 100, when 3M, DuPont, and other names were selling materials with about a 30K. The GT scientists, a clever bunch, found a way to increase the K to a little over 50. It still is limited to about 50 volts, and can no way compete with the EEStor claim of 20,000. Commercial capacitors the EEStor is similar to have a K value about that, but the cap drops off with temp and voltage. Under the claimed use conditions, they would have a K of about 200....way, way below the 20,000 of the reference. So, the puzzlement is that...100 times the K stability of current materials, and 20 times the voltage stress. This was responded to in more detail on Tylers site, but basically, the Georgia Tech work was not in the same field as EEStor. True, they both used Barium Titanate, and the GT people made a significant step ahead in the field of BT loaded epoxy for incorporation in PC boards. An earlier paper by Penn State had predicted the maximum K of about 100, when 3M, DuPont, and other names were selling materials with about a 30K. The GT scientists, a clever bunch, found a way to increase the K to a little over 50. It still is limited to about 50 volts, and can no way compete with the EEStor claim of 20,000. Commercial capacitors the EEStor is similar to have a K value about that, but the cap drops off with temp and voltage. Under the claimed use conditions, they would have a K of about 200….way, way below the 20,000 of the reference.

So, the puzzlement is that…100 times the K stability of current materials, and 20 times the voltage stress.

]]> By: Greg Woulf http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-21845 Greg Woulf Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:09:40 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-21845 I've talked to other capacitor people that said it's impossible, but they can't really say, "this part is impossible," it's always supported by their own experience, and not by absolute impossible terms. I believed them because I didn't know then and I trusted them to be experts. Georgia Tech made an announcement this year they they've made a breakthrough in capacitor technology. Guess what on, Barium Titenate capacitors. Big surprise that their discovery is practically word for word what's in EESTor's patent. They might use a slightly different material to get around a sloppy patent, but they're saying the same thing. http://www.chemistry.gatech.edu/news/release.php?id=1362 They've already shown double the amount that's ever been realized by capacitor makers, so this absolute unbreakable ceiling of impossibility isn't quite so solid as some would have you believe. If they were wrong about it being possible, then it's just possible that EEStor is also telling the truth and so I did some digging. The founders of EESTor was Richard Weir and Nelson were working on an extremely thing titanium alloy coating, that actually worked and was scientifically recognized. They have experience in this field. By no means have they ever been considered scammers. They've verified the purity of a production line in their only public announcement showing that they have intention to build product. I think this secretive company, might be real. In any case I'm going to suspend my skepticism, and ignore people that say it's impossible, that don't have the ability to show how it's impossible. I’ve talked to other capacitor people that said it’s impossible, but they can’t really say, “this part is impossible,” it’s always supported by their own experience, and not by absolute impossible terms. I believed them because I didn’t know then and I trusted them to be experts.

Georgia Tech made an announcement this year they they’ve made a breakthrough in capacitor technology. Guess what on, Barium Titenate capacitors. Big surprise that their discovery is practically word for word what’s in EESTor’s patent. They might use a slightly different material to get around a sloppy patent, but they’re saying the same thing.

http://www.chemistry.gatech.edu/news/release.php?id=1362

They’ve already shown double the amount that’s ever been realized by capacitor makers, so this absolute unbreakable ceiling of impossibility isn’t quite so solid as some would have you believe.

If they were wrong about it being possible, then it’s just possible that EEStor is also telling the truth and so I did some digging.

The founders of EESTor was Richard Weir and Nelson were working on an extremely thing titanium alloy coating, that actually worked and was scientifically recognized. They have experience in this field. By no means have they ever been considered scammers.

They’ve verified the purity of a production line in their only public announcement showing that they have intention to build product. I think this secretive company, might be real. In any case I’m going to suspend my skepticism, and ignore people that say it’s impossible, that don’t have the ability to show how it’s impossible.

]]> By: John http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-1918 John Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:54:31 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-1918 Underline "...(EEStor) claims to have technology to produce an ultra-capacitor...." As an engineer who has worked in this field for decades, and having dozens of patents, I'm afraid it is "bunk". It is impossible on several fronts. Good PR, lousy science. The car is good, but I fear they will be stuck with batteries for some time to come. Underline “…(EEStor) claims to have technology to produce an ultra-capacitor….”

As an engineer who has worked in this field for decades, and having dozens of patents, I’m afraid it is “bunk”. It is impossible on several fronts. Good PR, lousy science.

The car is good, but I fear they will be stuck with batteries for some time to come.

]]> By: L http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-1569 L Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:45:36 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-1569 One of the biggest problem for alternative energy is accumulation. If you have an electric car fitted with this kind of ultracapacitors in the box you can use it as accumulator for your house. One of the biggest problem for alternative energy is accumulation.
If you have an electric car fitted with this kind of ultracapacitors in the box you can use it as accumulator for your house.

]]> By: Matt http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/comment-page-1/#comment-1558 Matt Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:32:41 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/09/27/zenn-cars-eestors-ultracapacitor/#comment-1558 While I don't want a car that goes just 25 MPH. (lame!)... I'd very happily have an all EV car with limited range. Why? Because in and around the city, I rarely drive more than 25 miles or so in one day. For the occasional times I'll go on trips on the weekend, I'll rent a big fat SUV & suck down lots of gas -- it won't matter to my overall average carbon footprint, because my main mode of transport around the city will be green, clean, EV. But the biggest reason I want an around town EV is because it will last forever... except, of course for the battery & tires & possibly brakes. There is no reason for an electric engine to die like an IC motor will. No 60,000 mile checkup. No Oil changes. And no death of the engine around 200,000 miles. It'll keep going & going. There are way less moving parts inside an electric engine (no need for gears, no hoses & belts. Just the electric engine connected directly to the wheels. Simple... elegant... very long lasting. Just swap out the battery every 50,000 or so miles & whalla. Now... with $3 / gallon gas & $400 / kWh batteries the price differencial is marginal. However, with $6 gallon gas.. it becomes much cheaper to drive the EV. Europe... take note! cya Matt While I don’t want a car that goes just 25 MPH. (lame!)… I’d very happily have an all EV car with limited range. Why?

Because in and around the city, I rarely drive more than 25 miles or so in one day. For the occasional times I’ll go on trips on the weekend, I’ll rent a big fat SUV & suck down lots of gas — it won’t matter to my overall average carbon footprint, because my main mode of transport around the city will be green, clean, EV.

But the biggest reason I want an around town EV is because it will last forever… except, of course for the battery & tires & possibly brakes.

There is no reason for an electric engine to die like an IC motor will. No 60,000 mile checkup. No Oil changes. And no death of the engine around 200,000 miles. It’ll keep going & going.

There are way less moving parts inside an electric engine (no need for gears, no hoses & belts. Just the electric engine connected directly to the wheels. Simple… elegant… very long lasting.

Just swap out the battery every 50,000 or so miles & whalla.

Now… with $3 / gallon gas & $400 / kWh batteries the price differencial is marginal.

However, with $6 gallon gas.. it becomes much cheaper to drive the EV.

Europe… take note!

cya
Matt

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