Comments on: Electric Car Cost Per Mile http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/ Ed Ring's EcoWorld Posts Sat, 4 Jul 2009 21:02:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Jason http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-97123 Jason Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:59:20 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-97123 I can't wait to see the tesla in my hometown of Virginia, the battery technology will advance when enough people buy electric cars, Thanks for the article. I can’t wait to see the tesla in my hometown of Virginia, the battery technology will advance when enough people buy electric cars, Thanks for the article.

]]> By: Better Place Plans World Domination, But Success Seems Unlikely | BNET Energy Blog | BNET http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-95136 Better Place Plans World Domination, But Success Seems Unlikely | BNET Energy Blog | BNET Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:26:13 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-95136 [...] a mile — a third of what a 30 mile per gallon car costs to drive with gas at $3 (hat tip Ecoworld). So Better Place would be making $15 million a year in revenue. Not bad, [...] [...] a mile — a third of what a 30 mile per gallon car costs to drive with gas at $3 (hat tip Ecoworld). So Better Place would be making $15 million a year in revenue. Not bad, [...]

]]> By: Dimitris T http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-92978 Dimitris T Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:47:54 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-92978 However your calculations miss one important part: how was the electricity to charge the batteries generated ? It comes from a power plant, which, is about 30% efficient in converting nuclear/petrol/carbon/whatever power into electricity. I believe therefore that, when we look at the big picture, it is unfair to state that "IC engine = 25% eff, electric = 80% eff." As many people have indicated, the real limitation is the battery technology. All other things are already there. However your calculations miss one important part: how was the electricity to charge the batteries generated ?

It comes from a power plant, which, is about 30% efficient in converting nuclear/petrol/carbon/whatever power into electricity. I believe therefore that, when we look at the big picture, it is unfair to state that “IC engine = 25% eff, electric = 80% eff.”

As many people have indicated, the real limitation is the battery technology. All other things are already there.

]]> By: dj Galate http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-92830 dj Galate Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:23:57 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-92830 Thank you for all the calcualtions. Unless I missed it, you folks did not factor in federal and state taxes on Gasoline. Gasoline itself is really pretty cheap. You can be sure our fine friends at the State and Federal level will not allow people using the roads in electric cars to get away without paying fuel taxes very long. After adding the taxes to the electric car (per 33 kilowatt/ hr equal to taxes on a gallon of gasoline) I suspect the annual fuel/ total mileage costs, between electric and gas, will be much closer. My two cents Dj PS Be careful what you wish for. Watch for that mandatory, prepaid, Kilowatt/hr meter. It will be installed in all electric/hybrid vehicles that draw electric power from any stationary source (grid, generator,other). They will then start taxing you a Kilowatt road tax from that meter (kind of like a prepaid, automatic, toll collector. If you don't pay (prepay your meter when you charge up), a little red light on top of your car will light up so they can easily identify and ticket you. The fines and penalties will probably be added as if you ran a toll. Thank you for all the calcualtions.
Unless I missed it, you folks did not factor in federal and state taxes on Gasoline. Gasoline itself is really pretty cheap.

You can be sure our fine friends at the State and Federal level will not allow people using the roads in electric cars to get away without paying fuel taxes very long.

After adding the taxes to the electric car (per 33 kilowatt/ hr equal to taxes on a gallon of gasoline) I suspect the annual fuel/ total mileage costs, between electric and gas, will be much closer.

My two cents
Dj
PS Be careful what you wish for. Watch for that mandatory, prepaid, Kilowatt/hr meter. It will be installed in all electric/hybrid vehicles that draw electric power from any stationary source (grid, generator,other). They will then start taxing you a Kilowatt road tax from that meter (kind of like a prepaid, automatic, toll collector. If you don’t pay (prepay your meter when you charge up), a little red light on top of your car will light up so they can easily identify and ticket you. The fines and penalties will probably be added as if you ran a toll.

]]> By: ben howser http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-92051 ben howser Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:55:08 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-92051 You compare the efficiency of turning gasoline into mechanical energy (25%) with the efficiency of turning electricity into mechanical energy (80%). Fine. But in making the cost comparison, you make the inherent assumption that the gasoline was turned into electrical power at 100% efficiency. However, typical electric power plant efficiency is approximately only 37%. This is the ratio of electrical energy per chemical energy in the fossil fuel being burned to create that energy. Therefore the net efficiency of the electric car powered by a fossil fuel burning power station is only 30%, just slightly above the efficiency of burning the fuel directly in the vehicle. You compare the efficiency of turning gasoline into mechanical energy (25%) with the efficiency of turning electricity into mechanical energy (80%). Fine. But in making the cost comparison, you make the inherent assumption that the gasoline was turned into electrical power at 100% efficiency. However, typical electric power plant efficiency is approximately only 37%. This is the ratio of electrical energy per chemical energy in the fossil fuel being burned to create that energy. Therefore the net efficiency of the electric car powered by a fossil fuel burning power station is only 30%, just slightly above the efficiency of burning the fuel directly in the vehicle.

]]> By: Brooklands http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-89983 Brooklands Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:05:31 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-89983 I am no engineer or expert on any of this, but i would think that if we can have transportation modules using electricity made from coal, hydro, solar, wind, or other sources, as well as hydrogen fuel cells, IC petroleum engines, and anything else that develops, our resources across the world will be better utilized and meet more needs for particular vehicles. I am no engineer or expert on any of this, but i would think that if we can have transportation modules using electricity made from coal, hydro, solar, wind, or other sources, as well as hydrogen fuel cells, IC petroleum engines, and anything else that develops, our resources across the world will be better utilized and meet more needs for particular vehicles.

]]> By: sculptor http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-23992 sculptor Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:54:01 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-23992 Well, since most of the salient points where addressed in the above discussion I'll only add that it's nice (and more efficient) to have an IC vehicle during cold weather because the waste heat can be used to keep ones feet warm. This is called co-generation and it is very efficient if used correctly. My idea of an ideal vehicle would be a plug-able diesel hybrid. It would get about 70 mpg on the highway and 80 mpg in city driving when it's off the grid. Well, since most of the salient points where addressed in the above discussion I’ll only add that it’s nice (and more efficient) to have an IC vehicle during cold weather because the waste heat can be used to keep ones feet warm. This is called co-generation and it is very efficient if used correctly.

My idea of an ideal vehicle would be a plug-able diesel hybrid. It would get about 70 mpg on the highway and 80 mpg in city driving when it’s off the grid.

]]> By: nikhil.p.jadhav http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-11748 nikhil.p.jadhav Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:52:38 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-11748 hi i am a engineering student and would like to give a seminar on nuclear powered car so can you give any information so that i can give this seminar thanking you hi i am a engineering student and would like to give a seminar on nuclear powered car so can you give any information so that i can give this seminar thanking you

]]> By: David Grove http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-2070 David Grove Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:44:50 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-2070 "Hey, if you’re gonna count production and distribution against the electric car, you should charge it against the gasoline car as well." The important thing is to start at the same starting place and measure the cost from there. Start from a gallon of gasoline. Then use it either to power a conventional automobile, or, alternatively, to fuel an electric power plant and eventually power an EV. Both require the same starting point. The upstream petroleum production costs accrue to both. To make the EV vs IC powered behicle comparison by basing the electric vehicle cost on energy in electrical form, while basing the ICE vehicle cost on energy in petroleum form isn't quite legitimate, in my opinion. One could make the argument that electricity to power an EV need not be based on a petroleum product if one is considering nuclear, hydroelectric, or coal sources for electricity production. “Hey, if you’re gonna count production and distribution against the electric car, you should charge it against the gasoline car as well.”

The important thing is to start at the same starting place and measure the cost from there. Start from a gallon of gasoline. Then use it either to power a conventional automobile, or, alternatively, to fuel an electric power plant and eventually power an EV.

Both require the same starting point. The upstream petroleum production costs accrue to both.

To make the EV vs IC powered behicle comparison by basing the electric vehicle cost on energy in electrical form, while basing the ICE vehicle cost on energy in petroleum form isn’t quite legitimate, in my opinion.

One could make the argument that electricity to power an EV need not be based on a petroleum product if one is considering nuclear, hydroelectric, or coal sources for electricity production.

]]> By: Brian schend http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/comment-page-1/#comment-1587 Brian schend Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:56:44 +0000 http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/#comment-1587 60% Efficiency at the power plant x 80% at the car is valid. So let's add drilling, refining, and truck transport to gasoline. While pipeline is comparable to transmission lines in efficiency, they don't go to every home like power lines do. So, considering refining, drilling and trucking, gasoline would likewise drop to around 15 MPG equivalent under this scenario. Hey, if you're gonna count production and distribution against the electric car, you should charge it against the gasoline car as well. 60% Efficiency at the power plant x 80% at the car is valid. So let’s add drilling, refining, and truck transport to gasoline. While pipeline is comparable to transmission lines in efficiency, they don’t go to every home like power lines do. So, considering refining, drilling and trucking, gasoline would likewise drop to around 15 MPG equivalent under this scenario.

Hey, if you’re gonna count production and distribution against the electric car, you should charge it against the gasoline car as well.

]]>